This morning I was pleasantly surprised to see a tweet from Mike Myatt about an article FedEx’s Matt Ceniceros had written where he discussed how the company uses social media to connect with its customers. He added this passage:
“Social media” can seem like a complex world of diverse and daunting technology. But the technology is fairly easy to learn if you spent some time with it. Social media is really just another channel to tell people about your business. If you read any of the top online influencers like Chris Brogan, Mack Collier or Dan Schwabel they all give insights on how to be “social” and personal online. They tackle many of the issues we have in face-to-face communication, but how to translate the learnings online.
I really appreciate Matt mentioning me in that context, and especially with Chris and Dan. Matt’s doing a great job of leveraging social media to connect with Fed-Ex’s customers online, and he’s the only employee of ANY shipping company that I’ve ever interacted with on Twitter. So he’s got a leg-up on the competition there.
Matt and I have talked on Twitter several times, some times about how companies can use social media, or how his company can use social media, or we’ve even chatted about college football a few times (Matt’s a big Texas fan).
If you’re like many people, and especially companies, you might look at social media and think “Ok how is talking to a bunch of people all day going to help me? What’s the ROI of being friendly on Twitter?”
It’s a legitimate question, and one that many of us struggle with. Hell I have to justify to myself the amount of time I spend using social media.
But I don’t ever feel the need to question if there is value in helping others. In connecting friends, in sharing what I’ve learned. Case in point; even though Matt and I have talked several times on Twitter, we may never work together, and technically I probably won’t get any direct business from interacting with him. But because we’ve chatted before, because I’ve tried to help him, we became friends via Twitter, and that’s probably had something to do with him mentioning me in his article. Which then got RTed several times, then Chris RTed it to his 100K or so followers, and a whole lot of people were exposed to a very positive endorsement by the guy that heads up social media for one of the largest companies in the world.
Not too shabby.
This is why I don’t think companies should obsess about the ROI of social media. Should they, MUST they see a return on their time and money and effort? Absolutely. But if companies view every single interaction and minute spent with social media through the lens of ‘is this going to make us money?’, they are going to miss the big picture. That social media works best at INDIRECTLY creating value for companies. It’s not “If we tweet, we’ll sell more stuff”, it’s “If we can create value for our customers via Twitter, then that will increase their trust in us and the brand equity we have with them and then AS A RESULT of that, sales will increase.”
For example, let’s look at #blogchat. Our weekly chat about personal and professional blogging on Twitter has been growing like a weed for 11 months. Occasionally, friends will tell me “You need to find a way to get some business from #blogchat, you’re spending too much time with it not to.” But I didn’t create #blogchat as a way to get more consulting business, I created it as a way for people to come together on Twitter and talk about blogging. That’s it. Now as a result of #blogchat I have connected with people that HAVE referred me to clients and that HAVE hired me to do work for them, but that’s been an INDIRECT result of creating the chat. If I tried to make #blogchat a vehicle for DIRECTLY giving me business, it likely would be a lot less valuable to everyone else, and as a result a lot less popular. Which means it probably wouldn’t be helping me get any business anyway.
So companies, be mindful of getting value from your social media efforts, but understand that the more value you CREATE for the people you are trying to connect with, the more value you’ll receive in return.
Mack, (I’m the first to comment here? wow) I am investing a lot of time reading, commenting and networking with smart folks like yourself. And it is working. Not in new clients (yet) but in new knowledge, skills and resources that I may not have found without SM. It’s an investment I’ve made in myself and my business, worth all the time and energy.
#Blogchat is a great example of ROI on SM: you created something of value for others, let it develop and grow into a community which connected you with others. However indirectly, those connections brought you new business. Worth giving a damn for sure.
.-= Davina K. Brewer´s last blog ..Five to Follow Friday Challenge: Get Out of Your Twitter Comfort Zone =-.
You’re in first Davina! Really at its core, social media is simply communications tools, and Twitter is a great example of this. David Griner once said that Twitter was networking as people, not titles, and that’s a great way of looking at it.
The ‘return’ is sometimes hard to accurately measure, but anyone that’s been active in social media knows it’s there.
Hey Mack,
Thanks for sharing this! My bandmates and I are interested in using social media to interact with our fans in a more personal manner. We feel that these tools can be used as more than simply an online advertising space, but had questioned wether the time investment was truly worthwhile. I really appreciate you posting your thoughts about the ROI of giving a damn. You couldn’t have put that any better.
-Mason
By the way, I discovered what you’re doing through a post by Ari Herzog on ariwriter.com. So, at the very least, creating value begets new traffic 🙂 I look forward to continuing to learn from you.
Hey Mason, social media is a great way to connect with your fans. It’s a cumulative effect, it can take a while to get rolling, but after the rolling starts, it eventually takes off.
As for your efforts, focus on the fans. Give them ‘behind the scenes’ access. Have ‘secret’ shows for Facebook fans (for example), and take a TON of pictures of the people that show up, then post them on your Facebook page so they can tag themselves. Maybe somehow tie them tagging themselves into winning free tickets or a prize.
But treat the fans as the real rockstars, because they are. And use your online social media efforts to lead to offline contact with your fans.
Hey Mack,
Thanks for getting back to me! Sorry it’s taken me a while to return your message. I just noticed that my junk mail filter ate my subscription to this post’s follow-up comments. Lame.
That’s a great idea to encourage fans to tag themselves in the pictures we take! I totally agree with you: the fans are the real rockstars. Without their support, we would all be out of a job 🙂 That would be a fantastic way to spotlight what they’re doing to help us too. And I wouldn’t be surprised if, as an added bonus, it helped to drive more traffic our way. If one of my favorite bands posted a picture with me in it I would definitely tell my friends to check it out. Especially if I could win some free schwag.
I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me!
-Mason
.-= Mason Taylor´s last blog ..Do You Wanna Date My Avatar? =-.
Mack,
I think you’ve drawn a perfect picture here of networking at its best, given that “helping others…connecting friends…sharing what I’ve learned” is what truly great networkers do. And though many companies can’t seem to get their heads around why it’s so difficult to fully measure the ROI of social media, many individuals/executives do understand that it’s almost impossible to measure the ROI of networking. You know it’s working, and it often leads to great relationships, business partnerships and in some cases new job or client opportunities, but it can take a very long time to bear *measurable* fruit.
Sean Duffy (@BrandRanter) and I had a discussion on just this topic at the Marketing Profs Digital Mixer in October that he documented in this blog post: (in which he mentions you as well!) http://bit.ly/27HIzL
Sean said that the idea of presenting social media to executives in the C-suite as networking – but with customers, potential customers, partners and brand ambassadors on a much grander scale – was an actionable insight.
Executives and companies do tend to understand the old adage “you get out of it what you put into it,” and I think expert consultants like you can help them to see that is true of social media. 🙂
@LisaPetrilli
.-= Lisa Petrilli´s last blog ..LisaPetrilli: Incomparable Product List: P&G Leads 2010 Edison Best New Product Award Finalists With Five Nods http://bit.ly/aBx0p1 =-.
Thank you Lisa! And to be fair, since I am one person, I can more easily see the impact and positive affect from my networking efforts.
I think that at first companies aren’t sure what the ‘return’ is from social media, but once they become familiar with the benefits of connecting with customers and what can be gained, I think they loosen the reins a bit.
And thanks for the link to Sean’s post!
Mack–First, let me say thank you for taking the time to write about the article. I’m humbled by much of what you discuss above. It is true that as a participant of #blogchat I’ve come to understand the value you provide to the community. The fact is I do read your posts and place your insights to my thought process.
What I would like to share with your readers is when I interviewed for a position recently, I asked you for a recommendation from you. You wrote back and said, I won’t speak to you from a personal perspective, but I will say how I feel about your knowledge of the discipline based on our conversations and interactions at SXSW.
No fluff. No lies. Just honesty and transparency. The hallmarks of this social movement.
MC
Thanks Matt, and hope it helped! Hate I won’t get to see you at SXSW again this year.
Brilliant.
I really like the concept of “giving to get back” on social media. And I also like very much the fact that is not a philosophical concept: it’s a very practical rule. If you respect other individuals, the more you’re involved, the more people get involved with you.
I think we could also call it “social web karma”.
.-= Stefano Maggi´s last blog ..Brands will be friends? Relazioni tra marche nel social web =-.
“Social web karma”, yeah that’s a good way to put it, Stefano!
It’s not “If we tweet, we’ll sell more stuff”, it’s “If we can create value for our customers via Twitter, then that will increase their trust in us and the brand equity we have with them and then AS A RESULT of that, sales will increase.”
Perfect! This is exactly what I try to get my clients to understand. It’s by far the hardest point to get across. Not to mention that social media is not a way to get instant ‘sales.’
Social media is more about building relationships and trust. Once you start seeing revenue from it, it’s an added bonus.
.-= Heather Villa´s last blog ..“What should I do?” – New Series – Social Media Mindmeister =-.
Ms Villa I think it goes back to why companies start using social media to begin with. If they start looking to increase sales, they want immediate returns. But if they start with the aim being to use social media primarily for customer service, they usually see social media as more of a way to connect with customers.
Hey Heather, I’ve had the same struggle with you. Clients aren’t willing to spend time trying social media out (certainly not their own personal time) so they don’t experience that ‘a ha’ moment.. and it’s so difficult to explain that in words.
Mack, I love how you equate ‘giving a damn’ with social media ROI. Maybe I’ll try telling my clients to try giving a damn / caring for their customers as much as they care about their own jobs 😛
Mack
We know that SM is about building relationships and interacting with people and in some cases becoming friends. The key here is that for a company to remember is that a). consumers need reminders sometimes and when they are tinkering around on FB or Twitter and you come into their stream, you reminded them of you and possibly something they need to add to grocery list, Target run – subtle reminder that you are there. B). We buy from who we like. Who we like is companies or really in SM the person behind the computer who treats us well, does not interfere into our space and we feel connected to in some sort of way.
Once companies grasp this, they will understand that they want to be on SM platforms to get people to see the more human side of the brand so that people will match their own personality characteristics with the brand and like it. People used to form opinions based on WOM from others who had good or bad experience. With SM yes that still holds true but we are also able to have info about a company at our fingertips to strengthen or change our initial opinion and build our own brand image.
.-= Suzanne Vara´s last blog ..Facebook Enables Privacy Settings for Applications =-.
Hi Mack – This article is one of the best descriptions of social media ROI that I have seen. You really put into words the essence of social media and how a business can add value with social media, and the value they may receive over time with this investment.
I had read another good analogy where social media ROI was likened to landscaping and the appearance of a company’s building. The ROI of having neatly manicured landscaping and a professional appearance may not be able to be measured in straight ROI – in terms of dollars and cents – however it adds to the overall image of your business and contributes to gaining new clients and is therefore worth investing in.
Hi John, I think we are so focused on the ROI of social media right now because so many companies are familiar with it, or its value. No company questions the value of friendly employees and good customer service, because they know that this positively affects their business. Hopefully we will reach a time when companies understand the value of listening to their online customers, and creating value for them, much as they try to do in an offline setting.
It absolutely amazes me that time after time, in place after place we seem to have to relearn “Do unto others” as though it’s something new or needing to be justified… 🙂 One of the beauties of social media for me is the incredible education available FREE, just for asking questions of experts! Here – much like most other places I’ve been in life – the REAL experts are nearly always the most willing to be helpful…and with that as the established vibe, who wouldn’t want to help out where they, in turn could? Other, that is, than the “we’re here to get in your pockets” types who are everywhere…
Thanks for helping process the thoughts, though. I do appreciate that!
.-= KevinCole509´s last blog ..American Package Design Award =-.